Plasmashell crashes often enough any feelings of superiority are due to poor meat space memory.
RAM was the last thing on my mind when I switched to a tiling WM.
With actual hardware, yes. But I use tiling WMs since where 2–4GB Ram was all my thinkpad has.
KDE can be considered heavy only if your idea of a desktop use is to launch it and stop right there.
But normally after that you launch apps and that’s where the magic happens: it is so integrated, apps barely add any more RAM usage on top.
So instead of comparing DE x and y, compare what a desktop actively used looks like: browser? office suite? file manager? drawing app?
Only then will you be able to compare you RAM usage from one DE to another. Everything else is comparing cars fuel economy when they’re all idle.
Yeah I dont get the obsession with optimization
KDE is neat and does what I want a DE to do
I run Plasma 6. Not because I like it but because I dislike it less than Gnome infuriates me.
If lack of features and customizability is my biggest gripe with Gnome, crazy instability is my gripe with KDE. Plasma is fine on defaults, but once you customize (the way it’s supposed to work), KDE becomes plain unstable. The Wacom pen input settings panel is way better in KDE than Gnome. That’s the biggest reason I stay.
What do you do to it so it becomes unstable?
Nothing weird. Create panels, application launchers, add spacers, etc.
KDE is stable in my experience, but I don’t enjoy the window management and the shitloads of embedded packages. Now I’m on river for the time being.
KDE is a LOT lighter than it used to be. The migration to plasma was ugly but they definitely got their shit together. Resource wise, it’s fine. You can run it in a pi.
GNOME is unapologetic resource wise. It’s like living with an asshole roommate that doesn’t understand why everyone hates him. It’s not getting better. KDE is.
While I agree with you, it’s not like GNOME consumes so many ressources that it affects the average person’s experience.
Personally, I think GNOME is much more self explanatory. Whatever environment you come from, even if you have no computing experience at all, you will probably get stuff done with GNOME.
With Plasma, I noticed that people with low tech-skills struggle a lot more, because they are less crazy about making everything super duper extra obvious (especially how to configure stuff)
Where is maximize? Where is minimize? I see windows on the screen but no window buttons other than close.
It’s windows 8 all over again. A touch interface whether you like it or not.
Unused ram is wasted ram. Change my mind
This applies when RAM is used as temporary cache or something that can be instantly freed the moment it is needed otherwise. This doesn’t really work for justifying higher RAM use by KDE, unless you would never need that RAM for anything else anyway.
I use KDE because it is good, though. Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Firefox without any website loaded uses more RAM than a full Plasma session.
And KDE can be even more efficient if you go into the settings and tweak things a bit, turning off some unnecessary features that are on by default.
Which features? Asking because I switched recently to Linux.
Which features are unnecessary?
Well, depends how you’re using it. In my case, for example, I don’t have a printer, so I could turn off the entire print manager system/service and save a bit of unnecessary RAM. And if you’re trying to be economical about RAM usage, things like fancy window decorations, window animations, and other purely aesthetic stuff like that can of course go. But, really, what features are necessary versus unnecessary will depend on you and what you’re using your computer for.
Or did you just mean what features does KDE have?
In that case, the answer is basically, all the features. Like, KDE is the quintessential ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ desktop. You name it, they have it … or it can quickly and easily be added. Any feature you can think of from any other OS or desktop, chances are KDE already has it or at least can do it with just a little tweaking.
For an example, I think my favorite feature would be the ability to set custom window rules for each application or even each sub-window within an application. Setting rules that dictate the size and placement of that app’s windows, their transparency, which virtual desktop they open in, whether they show up in the taskbar or not, whether other windows can cover them up or not, etc. I use those rules extensively in my workflow to make sure each app always goes exactly where I want it on my multiple monitors, stays there, and behaves just how I want it to. (For example, I want my system monitor to be 80% translucent in a certain corner of the screen. I want my timer app to always stay on top, and in a particular location on a particular screen, I want my time tracking spreadsheet open on all desktops, but always in the background so it never covers any other window, and not cluttering up the taskbar. I want the terminal to always open maximized on my left monitor, and for it to be 100% visible when active, but 80% translucent when not active. With window rules, I can make all of that happen.)
And if you’re trying to be economical about RAM usage, things like fancy window decorations, window animations, and other purely aesthetic stuff like that can of course go.
That’s negligible at best and imaginary at worst. Themes that aren’t used, aren’t loaded into RAM.
Which features are unnecessary I meant. 😁
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
Firefox is absolutely unusable on that PC. Falkon runs much better.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Yep. KDE is feature-rich, but it’s also highly optimized these days, and the RAM usage is actually competitive with the best of them.
You can get RAM usage lower on a very stripped down, barebones system, but if you want a full ‘normal computer’ desktop experience that has all the things you’d expect a computer to have, you’d be hard-pressed to find one that uses significantly less RAM than KDE. (Yes, there are some that get lower … but not a lot lower. And unless you’re running on some extremely limited hardware, are those extra 20MB of RAM really going to make a difference in your everyday life?)
Also, higher ram usage by programs makes it less likely that their actively used RAM (ie what it is actually currently using) fits in your CPUs caches, making them run slower.
“i paid for the whole RAM imma use the whole RAM”
–me in 2010 using console commands to turn off all the particle effects in Portal so that I could boost my fps to ~20 w/ minimum settings (the laptop did not have a graphics card lmao)
Basically a zoetrope at that point.
Reminds me when I first started pc gaming. I even doubled my RAM to 512mb! I found a mod that basically turned everything into basic polygons where the walls were just red planes, characters looked like minecraft, the guns looked like they were done by a brutalist architect after being verbally described to them. Ran a mean 45 fps, but you had to use something like CCleaner to clear the ram in between rounds.
It’s just really oversimplifying memory usage. OS designers had that same thought decades ago already, so they introduced disk caching. If data gets loaded from disk, then it won’t be erased from memory as soon as it isn’t needed anymore. It’s only erased, if something else requests memory and this happens to be the piece of “free” memory that the kernel thinks is the most expendable.
For example, this is what the situation on my system looks like:
free -h total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 25Gi 9,8Gi 6,0Gi 586Mi 9,3Gi 15GiOut of my 32 GiB physical RAM, 25 GiB happens to be usable by my applications, of which:
- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
used), - 9.2 GiB is currently in use for disk caching and buffers (
buff/cache), and - only 6.1 GiB is actually unused (
free).
If you run
cat /proc/meminfo, you can get an even more fine-grained listing.I’m sure, I could get the number for actually unused memory even lower, if I had started more applications since booting my laptop. Or as the Wikipedia article I linked above puts it:
Usually, all physical memory not directly allocated to applications is used by the operating system for the page[/disk] cache.
So, if you launch a memory-heavy application, it will generally cause memory used for disk caching to be cleared, which will slow the rest of your system down somewhat.
Having said all that, I am on KDE myself. I do not believe, it’s worth optimizing for the speed of the system, if you’re sacrificing features that would speed up your usage of it. Hell, it ultimately comes down to how happy you are with your computer, so if it makes you happy, then even gaudy eye-candy can be the right investment.
I just do not like these “unused RAM is wasted RAM” calls, because it is absolutely possible to implement few features while using lots of memory, and that does slow your system down unnecessarily.- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
I read this same principle in an arch or gentoo forum/manual. I can’t even think of an argument against it tho? Unused anything is wasted by definition isn’t it? I know I’m missing something obvious somehow
The problem with the simplified phrase is that your computer is expected to run more than one program at a time.
If you are only running one program, it should certainly use all the RAM of your system.
However, your desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, game console, etc. all run hundreds or thousands of programs at the same time. Each individual application should optimize RAM usage so the whole system can work together.
Another commenter in the chain talks about disk caching, which is what the phrase “unused ram is wasted ram” came from
It’s been coopted by application programmers who don’t want to optimize their software
Well, e. g. unused weapon is not really waste, is it?
what? yes, an unused weapon is still a wasted weapon. I know I’m missing something tho
Maybe it is a wasted weapon, but is it really a waste? Can weapon be considered wasted?
Can we try a different example or a declarative statement that negates my implied claim that in any case where a thing is unused, it must be categorized as waste by definition? The previous questions seem obviously clarifying of nothing. I know they’re probably clarifying once your point is known, but because the point remains unknown to me, I can only perceive them as empty Socratic dialogue? I know it’s not, I’m just trying to express more definitively how confused I’m getting lol
I got plenty of ram. We’re using it.
IDK what y’all are on about. KDE + Khronkite uses very little RAM. There are a few background things you can disable if you don’t need them to make it even leaner.
It also just works, with so many integrations, all maintained for you.
My brief foray into discrete WMs like Sway was nostop “oh, it doesn’t have a WiFi manager? Oh, no sharing? Oh, no…” and I ended up having to install a bunch of stuff manually, manually configure it all, tie them together with some scripts and services that break with updates, and find out I did a no-so-great job because I haven’t spent literally thousands of man hours in integration and ended up using a lot of extra disk space and RAM anyway!
Breathes.
So yeah. Big DEs are nice. And lean, mostly.
For what it’s worth, I was in a similar boat. I wanted to try WMs/compositors, but the configuration seemed daunting. Then I gave Dank Material Shell a try and it just configured the vast majority of the system very nicely. I still had to change some window rules in the config file, but even that has a GUI now. I also heard great things about Noctalia, and I’m sure there are others as well.
I still think KDE is a top-tier option, to be clear. :P And adding tiling to KDE is also a great way to get the best of both worlds, just from the other direction.
The one thing I have to make leaner on every clean Plasma install is KSearch or what it’s called. searching for programs is WAY slow with all the search functionality enabled
Oh I wasn’t aware I can configure what kinds of things it searches for. now it’s almost instant. thanks for the tip!
Yes, for window managers, it’s worth finding a good strongly opinionated distro or script to start with, so you don’t have to hunt down and configure a dozen tools.
ML4W, Dank Linux, Zirconium, Omarchy come to mind
Brodie Robertson just made a video about Niri.
So I tried out Noctalia shell.
I just love it. Beautiful, responsive, enough settings in the GUI. I think it’s a keeper.
I went Windows > Xfce > Plasma > Gnome
What distro are you running Niri and Noctalia on? Did you find it easy to install?
I use EndeavourOS. Both are in the AUR, so it was really simple. (obligatory mention of the greatness of Arch Wiki)
The hardest part was figuring out how to get Waybar to disappear. It was showing below the Noctalia menubar.
baloointensifies 👀
I’ve settled for lxqt + niri because I was too lazy to rice my desktop and lxqt looked good enough, I don’t know what features I’m missing but until I need them I’m doing good.
I’m really interested in a tiling VM such as hyperland but I really like all the features of KDE. The latest release is absolutely massive and comes with “Save current theme”
Hyperland is the definition of a tiling WM thats just as heavy if not heavier than KDE (depending on your config)
krohnkite + kde rounded corners :3
Looks good, I’m going to try it out. I’ve almost good a complete zero mouse setup on my computer and i only use it for websites. I go as far as to use the terminal to connect to BT headphones and to play/pause music.
thats cool :3
hyprland looks good for screenshots but as soon as you update your system you’ll see that beautiful error box on top of your screen
I just prefer tiling windows managers idk
KDE Plasma can do that, too, via a KWinscript: https://codeberg.org/anametologin/Krohnkite 🙃
On a more serious note, this is a genuine recommendation. I’ve been using Krohnkite and similar scripts for a few years now, and they’re absolutely fine, especially since Plasma 6 introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which they just have to configure.
Especially for newbies wanting to try out tiling window management, without having to figure out a minimalist environment like a bare window manager, this is a great entrypoint IMHO.right? I thought twms were almost exclusively for workflow efficiency only and this was like 15 years ago lol
They’re for us dorks who like to like to chase efficiency, both screen real estate and keyboard navigation. A nice TWM combined with either a 21:9 or (my personal favorite) 16:18 ratio is pure bliss.
Just give me more monitors and I’m happy.
Give me one big monitor and I’ll set up 10 virtual desktops to switch between on it and I’m happy
Plasma’s Activities make up for some of my monitor shortfalls.
That’s fine. I’m running two DualUps (16:18) with a TWM, and it’s amazing. I wish they weren’t a discontinued display, or else I’d add a third.
So that’s effectively 2 monitors in a single case?
Stop, I can only get so erect.
It’s literally two panels without a bezel between. You can run full-screen with one input, or go into PIP mode and drive each individual panel with a different input.
And apparently discontinued. Goddammit.
Ah, a fellow DualUp evangelist. it’s a pity they didn’t catch on that much.
It really is a shame. I think right out the door being only 60hz probably hurt their adoption. But really, the ratio just doesn’t shine with your average, floating WM that most users are only accustomed to.
I’m not a fan of TWMs so I use this: https://store.kde.org/p/2334027
I like tiling window managers, because I run out of screen real estate and actually close windows. On a regular window manger, I will open dozens of windows and keep them open for many sessions.
Just give me more monitors and I’m happy.
I used TWMs for a long time but I eventually switched back to stacking WMs. Its sort of hard to go back but when I was using TWMs, I’d spend more time tweaking things than anything else
I used KDE early on… around SuSE 7.3. It was a trash fire for a long time. Wildly unstable, would take so long to compile it was basically a meme in the community before memes existed in mainstream, and it was like every single random idea was implemented. Zero cohesiveness. Thumbed their noses at any kind of UI/UX standards. Gnome, of all things was the more solid option if you wanted a “desktop.” Weird to think about considering how that ended up. It has come a longgggggggggg way. Still not for me but after messing with it recently I was pleasantly surprised.
You can also have auto tiling in KDE https://codeberg.org/Serroda/fluid-tile
It’s astonishing how little RAM KDE needs for its features.
Idk about little. I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.
I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.
Windows compresses RAM these days, not sure if Fedora does by default. Also, by itself Windows is surprisingly RAM efficient. I think it’s a holdover from Windows 8 which was developed for tablets when Microsoft tried competing with iPads.
The problems arise when web views like the news widget load. Then all the past optimizations no longer matter.
That seems odd. I’m on fedora KDE and from memory (excuse the pun) I sit at about 1.7GB usage at startup, and that’s with a few autostarted apps like joplin and pcloud. I don’t think I’ve seen Windows 11 that low ever, though I’ve hardly ever booted into it in the last 2 years.
Nobody here was talking about PedOS until you brought it up Comrade
my ram usage with no apps open is 12 to 15 gigs. ultranarine kde
If you use cosmic desktop, you can switch the entire desktop from floating to tiling and it works very smoothly
I started out using tiling but actually like floating more now. Still, cool to have such easy switches.
You can use a dedicated tiling window manager but cosmic is a lot more “batteries included” and just works.
Also it seems that they are constantly adding new features so its exciting to see where its going.
