One lawmaker proposed a law that would make it illegal to allow your children to see “drag” so none of this has to deal with parents doing their jobs and everything to deal with giving Nazis control over what other people are allowed to see
Not having it be regulated makes it a lot harder for parents to do their job, because the kids with responsible parents are getting peer-pressured by the kids with irresponsible parents.
Or put another way: you’re not making parents do their jobs; you’re making their jobs impossible by forcing them to choose between ruining their kid’s mental health by letting her be exposed to social media, or ruin her mental health by forcing her to be ostracised for not using social media.
The only way to have a successful outcome is to force everyone else’s kids not to use it, not just your own, and no amount of rugged individualist good parenting can accomplish that by itself!
That said, I am extremely sympathetic to the arguments against age verification laws too, which is why my preferred solution would be to fucking outlaw and destroy corporate social media entirely, for kids and adults alike!
Oh god, they’ll get some access? Like, I can’t completely control my children and they are individuals who have the right to start making choices? Jesus Christ, I’m not going to be able to exert my will over them indefinitely?
If your child is old enough to leave the house and sneak around on you they were going to do that. You should be teaching them to live in society, not just avoiding it and dumping them into an environment without the skills to process the reality of life.
You are exactly right. We’re all in this ugly, trapped situation, together, like it or not.
As a parent, do you remove the obviously ruinous toxins from the kiddo’s environment, entirely? Seems like the only sensible choice.
But then again…for the kid, few things could feel worse. An entire childhood spent alienated from their peers? Permanently out of the loop, to where that becomes the personality trait noticed and remembered by others?
What a horrible bargain, I completely hate it.
“Well, a little hideous poison for you, routinely, I guess, dear. I wouldn’t want you to end up weird, after all…”
Durable societies are unfortunately bound to have such inconveniences for some in exchange for the betterment of many.
Tech companies have released the equivalent of digital opium so they and the government are accountable.
When we look back at the opioid epidemic of the 90s we don’t blame the addicts or their families (well I suppose we did at one point, without the benefit of hindsight or a bigger picture view), we blame the Sacklers, pharmaceutical companies, doctors that took kickbacks etc.
I’d hate for us to make the same mistake just because the drug is delivered in a way we don’t completely understand yet.
It’s also not as simple as asking parents to simply be better at parenting, whatever that may mean. The drug is already out on the street, widely available, and ridiculously addictive. Keeping your child from it is not only depriving them of a dopamine hit that their brains are not developed enough to simply ignore (even most adults are addicted) and it is in many cases relegating them to social ostracization.
This is far beyond what one parent or group of parents can fix. It requires a societal level change which generally needs to come from the government, whether we like it or not.
I’d be happy to hear out possible solutions and, as a parent, share what is viable and what isn’t. It would be nice to hear from other parents also.
Some important context on this user before anyone else gets dragged into a discussion: check their post history, multiple to a “Youth Liberation” community.
No shade meant by calling it out, but I think that makes it much more clear how strong your opinions are on this. There’s nothing to be gained in trying to talk to you about this when your opinions are set so strongly. You aren’t going to see the dangers that the rest of us see because your focus is on allowing freedom from oppresive parental figures.
You can’t seriously be saying that in the comments of a post linking to leaked internal documents showing that one of these companies is aware of the dangers they pose and damage they are doing. Did nazis falsify internal documents and this leak?
Did you somehow miss the Cambridge Analytica scandal with Facebook, where they manipulated the emotional content of users’ feeds and gathered scientifically significant measurable responses in the emotions of the manipulated users?
Have you missed where each of these companies has had many public job postings for positions requiring applicants have psychology degrees?
People like to think of 4chan as the website that drove people to suicide, but every single one of the major social media sites has a fucking body count at this point, and almost every one is in the double digits.
Beyond all that, lemmy’s userbase trends older. I saw the tail end of the satanic panic into the moral grandstanding about the dangers of violent video games. I’d wager most of the users here lived through it.
I know firsthand what a moral panic looks like. They didn’t have the amount of research papers (that hold up to peer review) and leaked internal documents we can point at. They didn’t have body counts even remotely similar.
Keep on fighting for opressed teens to have more ways to get away from opressive parents. To have access to factual information that their parents don’t want them to have. It’s a good cause with not many people fighting for it.
That doesn’t mean though that anything you think challenges or opposes it is a nazi plot.
Teens are resilient and have astounding amounts of time on their hands. They’ll find a way to communicate, ways to make their own underground social platforms if they need to. The cat’s out of the bag. It’s the fucking internet. Corpos, government boots, no one can truly stop the signal. They couldn’t back in the days of dial up BBS. Good fucking luck now that you can get a device orders of magnitude more powerful for $50.
Don’t bother replying for my sake. I’m blocking you so I don’t get increasingly shitty towards you. Your mind’s made up on this, and so is mine. No point going back and forth if we’re just going to get more frustrated and exasperated at each other. Best of luck in your endeavours.
It’s not as bad as drugs. Don’t give your kids phones. Be a parent. Don’t need to upload all our data and Id to palantir databases for tracking under the same old “protect the children” bullshit
This isn’t necessary. For instance, simply require any device to which children have access to preinstall software that blocks 90% of the internet. Problem solved.
best thing on that front is same fix for most of the working classes problems…
-more pay
-shift to 6hr/4d work week
-actually invest in education
most people are good, amd would probably love to spend more time with their family, but in the US especially they’re overworked and underpaid, one accident away destitution
Or parents can do their job. We have to suffer with age verification bullshit laws that’s just there to have us all in a database.
One lawmaker proposed a law that would make it illegal to allow your children to see “drag” so none of this has to deal with parents doing their jobs and everything to deal with giving Nazis control over what other people are allowed to see
Not having it be regulated makes it a lot harder for parents to do their job, because the kids with responsible parents are getting peer-pressured by the kids with irresponsible parents.
Or put another way: you’re not making parents do their jobs; you’re making their jobs impossible by forcing them to choose between ruining their kid’s mental health by letting her be exposed to social media, or ruin her mental health by forcing her to be ostracised for not using social media.
The only way to have a successful outcome is to force everyone else’s kids not to use it, not just your own, and no amount of rugged individualist good parenting can accomplish that by itself!
That said, I am extremely sympathetic to the arguments against age verification laws too, which is why my preferred solution would be to fucking outlaw and destroy corporate social media entirely, for kids and adults alike!
Or like, use the ample parental controls to limit their time to a reasonable amount 🤷♂️.
the parent can only do that on devices they own. they can’t do that on classmates devices
Oh god, they’ll get some access? Like, I can’t completely control my children and they are individuals who have the right to start making choices? Jesus Christ, I’m not going to be able to exert my will over them indefinitely?
If your child is old enough to leave the house and sneak around on you they were going to do that. You should be teaching them to live in society, not just avoiding it and dumping them into an environment without the skills to process the reality of life.
Exerting will over them infinitely is literally the objective here
You are exactly right. We’re all in this ugly, trapped situation, together, like it or not.
As a parent, do you remove the obviously ruinous toxins from the kiddo’s environment, entirely? Seems like the only sensible choice.
But then again…for the kid, few things could feel worse. An entire childhood spent alienated from their peers? Permanently out of the loop, to where that becomes the personality trait noticed and remembered by others?
What a horrible bargain, I completely hate it.
“Well, a little hideous poison for you, routinely, I guess, dear. I wouldn’t want you to end up weird, after all…”
Durable societies are unfortunately bound to have such inconveniences for some in exchange for the betterment of many.
Tech companies have released the equivalent of digital opium so they and the government are accountable.
When we look back at the opioid epidemic of the 90s we don’t blame the addicts or their families (well I suppose we did at one point, without the benefit of hindsight or a bigger picture view), we blame the Sacklers, pharmaceutical companies, doctors that took kickbacks etc.
I’d hate for us to make the same mistake just because the drug is delivered in a way we don’t completely understand yet.
It’s also not as simple as asking parents to simply be better at parenting, whatever that may mean. The drug is already out on the street, widely available, and ridiculously addictive. Keeping your child from it is not only depriving them of a dopamine hit that their brains are not developed enough to simply ignore (even most adults are addicted) and it is in many cases relegating them to social ostracization.
This is far beyond what one parent or group of parents can fix. It requires a societal level change which generally needs to come from the government, whether we like it or not.
I’d be happy to hear out possible solutions and, as a parent, share what is viable and what isn’t. It would be nice to hear from other parents also.
This rhetoric is very dangerous. It’s fueling censorship specifically targeting marginalized people
Some important context on this user before anyone else gets dragged into a discussion: check their post history, multiple to a “Youth Liberation” community.
No shade meant by calling it out, but I think that makes it much more clear how strong your opinions are on this. There’s nothing to be gained in trying to talk to you about this when your opinions are set so strongly. You aren’t going to see the dangers that the rest of us see because your focus is on allowing freedom from oppresive parental figures.
Edit: they also “won’t give an inch on this”
“The dangers” are a moral Panic that’s been kicked off by Nazis
You can’t seriously be saying that in the comments of a post linking to leaked internal documents showing that one of these companies is aware of the dangers they pose and damage they are doing. Did nazis falsify internal documents and this leak?
Did you somehow miss the Cambridge Analytica scandal with Facebook, where they manipulated the emotional content of users’ feeds and gathered scientifically significant measurable responses in the emotions of the manipulated users?
Have you missed where each of these companies has had many public job postings for positions requiring applicants have psychology degrees?
People like to think of 4chan as the website that drove people to suicide, but every single one of the major social media sites has a fucking body count at this point, and almost every one is in the double digits.
Beyond all that, lemmy’s userbase trends older. I saw the tail end of the satanic panic into the moral grandstanding about the dangers of violent video games. I’d wager most of the users here lived through it.
I know firsthand what a moral panic looks like. They didn’t have the amount of research papers (that hold up to peer review) and leaked internal documents we can point at. They didn’t have body counts even remotely similar.
Keep on fighting for opressed teens to have more ways to get away from opressive parents. To have access to factual information that their parents don’t want them to have. It’s a good cause with not many people fighting for it.
That doesn’t mean though that anything you think challenges or opposes it is a nazi plot.
Teens are resilient and have astounding amounts of time on their hands. They’ll find a way to communicate, ways to make their own underground social platforms if they need to. The cat’s out of the bag. It’s the fucking internet. Corpos, government boots, no one can truly stop the signal. They couldn’t back in the days of dial up BBS. Good fucking luck now that you can get a device orders of magnitude more powerful for $50.
Don’t bother replying for my sake. I’m blocking you so I don’t get increasingly shitty towards you. Your mind’s made up on this, and so is mine. No point going back and forth if we’re just going to get more frustrated and exasperated at each other. Best of luck in your endeavours.
Sure, legalize smoking for 12 year olds so parents can regulate it themselves. Imbecilic reasoning.
How does that even logic?
I hate these people. I’m at a loss for words
You’re confused by the assertion that access to social media is at least as bad for children as some banned drugs? Is this your first day on earth?
It’s not as bad as drugs. Don’t give your kids phones. Be a parent. Don’t need to upload all our data and Id to palantir databases for tracking under the same old “protect the children” bullshit
Hard disagree.
This isn’t necessary. For instance, simply require any device to which children have access to preinstall software that blocks 90% of the internet. Problem solved.
Most parents won’t. People are people. Those that would want to have to ballance the risk of excluding their children from the collective.
Oh won’t someone think of the parents though?! How can they be expected to parent their own children, oh the humanity
best thing on that front is same fix for most of the working classes problems…
-more pay
-shift to 6hr/4d work week
-actually invest in education
most people are good, amd would probably love to spend more time with their family, but in the US especially they’re overworked and underpaid, one accident away destitution